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發表於 2008-5-19 16:59:36 | 顯示全部樓層
原帖由 mca 於 2008-5-19 13:09 發表
一點意見:

我們口口聲聲說推廣天文,實際上以甚麼遠見 (vision) 去經營 ?  
1.        以「勁鏡靚相」為本 ?
2.        以「欣賞星空」為本 ?
3.        以「了解宇宙」為本 ?
4.        還是「聯誼」為本 ?


I also agree that (2) and (3) are more important, and my students are also much much more interested in (2) and (3) more than (1).

A few years ago, when I started learning about astro-photography, I was really excited and gave my students talks and practice (webcam photography and DSLR whole disc moon imaging). I thought they would be hooked as much as I did, and would long for more. However, the result was that they were not so excited as much as I did. I enjoy image processing, but they don't. I don't know if my students are minority, but this really made me rethink about the importance of (1) in generating interest in my students.

And thank god that my students never go to star-gazing due to (4).

Back to the little lunar sidewalk experience I had last week, after watching the moon, I asked if they want to see how to do webcam photography, they leave immediately! May be it was just too late at night, but I feel that it may be more about the fact that not everyone is mad about 'hi-tech' stuff. I am not saying that photography is worthless, I am sure that some people are going to be amazed and interested, and many of you may have success stories to share. But do not think that it is THE magic ticket to the sky for majority of people..... the mistake I made before.

Last Friday, I watched the moon with my students (albeit for a very short time due to clouds). I had a sky 90 on a azimuthal mount and a C8 on EM200. With the EM200 set up, I kept a close eye on it. With the sky90 set-up, after teaching them what to aware, I just let them observe freely. Which set-up do you think they like? I saw that they were really in love with the simpler set-up - A simple set-up that they are free to explore whatever the moon has to offer. They even told me that how much details that they saw on C8 were also observable on sky 90!

Complicated set-up (usually involving huge scopes) don't seem to bring the sky closer (but note that I don't mean they are useless. I just say that magic does not necessarily happen this way.). The students may say 'wow, that's cool but I have to depend on you to operate it...how much is THAT?', but there is no connection to the night sky that we want them to feel owned and to embrace.

May be I am saying too much ....

[ 本帖最後由 astroQM 於 2008-5-19 17:06 編輯 ]
 樓主| 發表於 2008-5-19 17:36:55 | 顯示全部樓層
Thanks. Your experience in astronomy promotion is a helpful reminder  to formulate star camps for secondary school students.  I do agree that offering the students simple tools for free and easy connection to sky is more rewarding than showing big guns and hi-tech equipment . After all, "personal fever" is not the general students want.

AC
發表於 2008-5-19 22:37:35 | 顯示全部樓層
It's a good experience from AstroQM. Those people who organize star camp may take this into consideration.
Anyway, it's pity to see many astro forums in Hong Kong had become the nature forum too. I am not aginst this change as I am a nature lover too. But we need to understand the implicit meaning of this phenomenon. Fortunately, I still have keen interest in observing the moon and rambling the night sky.
發表於 2008-5-19 23:17:20 | 顯示全部樓層
應該將在職人士和學生分開來看。
我認為在職人士是會比較重視器材和攝影的,大家看看周圍便知。或許是財力較強,或是較喜歡專業領域了吧。

至於學生,mca兄的分類頗值得研究。
「1.勁鏡靚相」並不是主流學生的興趣,不需當成是推廣目標,但讓學生接觸一下也是好事。
「2.欣賞星空」和「3.了解宇宙」,我想是目前參加天文活動的主流學生,亦即是本身已經有興趣,所以推廣起來應該會較易。應該嘗試繼續他們的興趣、由淺入深令興趣加深。
但大家都清楚知道,「4.聯誼」的學生一定多過晒1,2,3,所以我地要諗下,究竟要唔要4?其實可以勾起4的興趣,變成1,2,3的話,可能更加有意義呢。

附識:我是在學中學生
 樓主| 發表於 2008-5-20 01:23:14 | 顯示全部樓層
講開天文班,以下是我的故事:

在18 歲時,我是紅磡工專 (現在理工大學) 的一年級生,學院無天文,所以報讀全港唯一的,由港大天文學會主辦的校外課程,為期約三個月,每星期上堂一晚。老實說,當年的課程比較認真,上堂有完整的英文講義派送,記憶中先講星圖常識 (赤經赤緯和星座),隨後是太陽和月球,太陽系其他成員 (大小行星,流星、彗星),最後是銀河系、雙星、星團和星雲,河外星系和宇宙結構從略,全部課程剛好在12 堂左右講完,課程有連貫性,所以缺席學員不多。導師不強調學員要做觀測或功課,但多數在授課完畢後立即上校舍天台睇天 (那時盤含道夜空的確比現在好 ! ),天台儀器不多,大慨是一兩支六吋牛頓反射鏡而已,由專人操作,學員則輪流看半分至一分鐘,人人有份,我最記得有位著旗袍穿高鞋的小姐教我看土星。課程內有額外一晚放小電影講美國探太空的時事,三個月後師生亦在赤柱聖士提反攪過一次 (不過夜) 的聯歡會,玩玩天文問答之類的遊戲,食下野,游下水,算是畢業禮,但沒有畢業証書那些整色整水的東西。我第二次上天文堂已在社會做事了,自費買了 Astro 10 cm f/10 反射鏡,大約是1971 年的事,導師是廖慶齊先生,他在中環環球大廈授課,好像是逢星期三上堂,那時坐井會創會會員也是同班同學。

我不知現在辦的天文班有那些改變,不過我認為六七十年代的先生和學員態度尚算認真,或者說:課程設計較好,有連貫性的講義,程度恰到好處,強調天文通識之餘又有即場觀天之樂,不攪花樣,課室井井有條,很少遲到早退,大慨是成功的因素吧。

AC
發表於 2008-5-20 01:25:45 | 顯示全部樓層
Thanks for everyone's kind words. I am sure that we all have success and unsuccessful stories to share. My students have taught me that what we think students like may not be really true, and it is nice to have an understanding audience here to hear my stories.

Thanks for ambcyli's comments. I agree with what you've raised particularly on photography, but I have something to add to your comments on point 4.

I've mentioned above that thank god my students do not go to star-gazing due to (4). While acknowledging that my students is probably a minority and most students are not like this, would this be also related to HOW the star-gazing activity is arranged? My (probably) off-putting tricks are:

1. I never go to pre-booked over-night camp. So people looking for a wild night out will not come. Also, disappointment from poor weather is minimised.
2. I never arrange BBQ or food party before star-gazing. They just have a quick dinner, usually at a near-by fast food restaurant. So people won't come for nice food.

The main goal is to convey the message to participants that star-gazing is not dessert, it is the main course. In fact, why do we need other activities to attract students? Does this imply that we also believe that star-gazing itself is not interesting enough? If we, as organisers, also treat star-gazing as dessert and attract students by saying 'we will stay overnight at some camp site where there are LOTS of amenities, and we'll have BBQ!', then the participants will also treat star-gazing as dessert. I sell star-gazing activities by telling them examples of objects and features they can see, what they have never noticed but will see, what instruments they will be using, etc.

I've run this in a band 1 school and a band 3 school. The disadvantage is that only about 10-20 people will come, sometimes even less. But those who come will be rewarded with things that can never be achieved with mass programme: short waiting time, lots of viewing experiences (low to high magnification viewing, use of binoviewer, photography, perhaps even observing the same things with different scopes, etc.), lots of conversation on what we've seen rather than unrelated gossips.

To promote astronomy to new-comers, I set up scopes for students to see the sun during lunch time or after school if some nice prominence or sunspot appear. Some will then ask about the school astronomy club and seem interested, but most will not.

Last Tuesday, I watched the moon with an ex-student near my home with C8, and two of us spent 1 hour just enjoying it visually with no photography. Afterwards, my student joked that if I have 10 students, I need either 4 more scopes or 4 more hours, just on the moon!

To see how (2) and (3) can be done in my opinion, let me share an expereince in an astronomy outreach programme and how I think it can be improved. The scopes were set up, some directed at the moon and some at Mars. The public were looking at them, but no one told them what to look for and what they could focus on. The stunning Apennines were in the eyepiece. Why not say a bit about its formation? Alpine Valley was there, but if no one mentioned it, who would have paid attention? Mars was in the eyepiece but most did not know that they could look for surface markings. Most just saw a bland orange-red disc. Why not tell them that if they try harder, they could see that, for example, the top half was darker than the bottom half?

When I watched Saturn in the mini-sidewalk I mentioned before, I directed the 3 people to see the Cassini division, counted the number of observable satellites, noticed the different colours on the globe, and the shadow of the globe on the ring. I think all these can be done to complete new-comers. Once they see so much details, they started asking detailed questions like why is there a Cassini division. Even if it is just a simple 'wow, that's nice' after seeing all these details, I think this 'wow' involves a very deep appreciation on the beauty of Saturn. This is how I think (2) and (3) can really be achieved.

People also like challenges even if I know that some are rather imposssible for certain instruments. When M42 trapezium was in the eyepiece, why not challenge them if they see the 5th star? When seeing Plato, why not ask them to count the number of craterlets? Praise them if they see Hortensius Domes. Say that they are really good observers if they can see this and that. They love it.

Oh, I've not mentioned photography at all!

I look forward to hear more outreach stories and tricks. Both successful and unsuccessful ones are very much welcomed!
 樓主| 發表於 2008-5-20 01:47:09 | 顯示全部樓層
這是65年HKU Student Union Astronomy Club 給天文班學員的通知書



AC
發表於 2008-5-20 09:03:35 | 顯示全部樓層
講起推廣天文(觀測性), 我想有一點是很重要的, 就是推廣者本身
很多推廣者,由於很多因素下, 本身已不是一個活躍的觀測者, 試問又如何能起身教的作用呢? 香港天文界的偶像廖慶齊先生, 本身已是一個活躍的觀測者, 故能起春風化雨的功效

香港在推廣天文方面, 經過不少人的努力, 已見成效, 但是"層次"的提升和如何保持持久的觀測興趣, 卻有待深化了
發表於 2008-5-21 00:07:43 | 顯示全部樓層
天文不只觀測(雖然或許是主調),所以要觀測者之餘,其他領域如理論的愛好者也是需要的。甚至,若能夠有一些擅於籌備活動的人也不錯。

若是籌備活動給學生的話,先要考慮一下,這活動的目標是什麼?
(路邊天文如"擺支鏡出來"基本上人人都有興趣,所以不必多加深究。以下僅考慮活動如到郊外觀星、觀星營、課程等)
A.以2,3為目標,令本身對天文有興趣的學生更加對天文有興趣,或強化知識技巧等。
B.以4為目標,招募貪玩的學生,透過玩樂活動慢慢滲入天文,建立天文的興趣。
決定了目標後,就要考慮活動的「天文/玩樂比重」。A的話,主線已是天文,所以應該做到7/3,甚至9/1亦無不可,因為參加者都清楚了解這是天文活動。B的話,就應該要3/7或2/8,務求令參加者在享受之餘,建立起天文的興趣,10個參加者有1個建立起興趣就已經達標。
如果妄圖兩面兼顧,做到5/5的話,此活動必定失敗,因無參加者會覺得滿意!天文又唔夠,玩樂又唔夠,兩頭唔到岸。

若問我的話,我絕對認為B比起A遠有意義得多!
而現今學界的活動大多是B,其實也是不錯的現象,至少也是推廣天文。
也正因為學界B活動已經足夠,若非學界團體(如HKAS)希望籌備學生活動的話,應做到A。
 樓主| 發表於 2008-5-22 13:15:10 | 顯示全部樓層
回應 #16 & 19

你們的意禾,HKAS 委員不妨研究下。

IMHO, 有一樣我覺得好重要,就是 #16 這段:

" ..... The scopes were set up, some directed at the moon and some at Mars. The public were looking at them, but no one told them what to look for and what they could focus on. The stunning Apennines were in the eyepiece. Why not say a bit about its formation? Alpine Valley was there, but if no one mentioned it, who would have paid attention? Mars was in the eyepiece but most did not know that they could look for surface markings. Most just saw a bland orange-red disc. Why not tell them that if they try harder, they could see that, for example, the top half was darker than the bottom half?

When I watched Saturn in the mini-sidewalk I mentioned before, I directed the 3 people to see the Cassini division, counted the number of observable satellites, noticed the different colours on the globe, and the shadow of the globe on the ring. I think all these can be done to complete new-comers. Once they see so much details, they started asking detailed questions like why is there a Cassini division. Even if it is just a simple 'wow, that's nice' after seeing all these details, I think this 'wow' involves a very deep appreciation on the beauty of Saturn. This is how I think (2) and (3) can really be achieved.

People also like challenges even if I know that some are rather imposssible for certain instruments. When M42 trapezium was in the eyepiece, why not challenge them if they see the 5th star? When seeing Plato, why not ask them to count the number of craterlets? Praise them if they see Hortensius Domes. Say that they are really good observers if they can see this and that. They love it.

事實上,營地是有鏡 set  好的,但少有人主動在旁解釋觀測目標的科普知識,只是讓人望幾下就算。新來的參加者缺乏照顧性的天文指導,往往好失望。辦營者 (包括自己) 可在這方面改善些。

AC
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